155. Ellen Yoakum, KPA-CTP, SAPBC 

Colleen [0:00]
Welcome to Unleashed at Work and Home. I'm Colleen Pelar, and this is where pet professionals come for honest conversations about what it really takes to show up for yourself while serving the animals you love. If you've ever felt caught between compassion and exhaustion, you're in the right place. Here we explore what it means to reconnect with your inner wisdom and rediscover the joy that brought you to this work. Make sure to join my email community at ColleenPelar.com for gentle, practical insights designed specifically for pet professionals.

Ellen Yoakum [0:40]
Now let's dive in.

Colleen [0:43]
Welcome back to Unleashed at Work, at Home. My guest today is Ellen Yoakum, and she's a behavior specialist at Pet Harmony. Welcome Ellen. How are you today?

Ellen Yoakum [0:52]
I'm good. How are you?

Colleen [0:55]
I'm good. I realized, as I said it, behavior specialist is a sort of a broad term, but it felt accurate, but I don't know that that's what you'd call yourself. Is that what you'd call you? What do you say?

Ellen Yoakum [1:04]
I use—it depends on who I'm talking to and what they're asking, because I wear a lot of different hats. So behavior specialist is fine. Behavior consultant is fine. Animal behavior consultant is fine.

Ellen Yoakum [1:16]
And then sometimes I'm a pet parent, sometimes I'm a whole human—that's not all the time though.

Colleen [1:25]
Not all the time, though. Isn't that true for all of us? Not all the time, though, but sometimes. Yeah, it is interesting how our identities carry labels, and sometimes we see the label as all of it, and we're so much more than what any label—any label. And for lots of my clients, there's a whole identity piece of like, well, for me, even when I shifted from dog training to coaching, I had this moment of like, well, who am I if I'm not a dog trainer? And it was deeply uncomfortable and incredibly valuable to explore that. So to notice that there's an image associated with words people put upon us, and those words can also be—

Ellen Yoakum [2:14]
Behavior ones.

Colleen [2:16]
You know, like you're friendly or you're a people pleaser, or you're a good host, whatever the thing. So we've veered into weird territory already, and we haven't even gotten started. Just the interesting thing of what do we call ourselves and others and how much of that encompasses the human experience. So let's start with the human experience. I like to ask people to tell me what they thought they wanted to do with their career when they were—what did 10-year-old Ellen think she was going to do when she grew up? And so let's go right there. So what was that idea?

Ellen Yoakum [2:57]
I thought I was going to be a teacher because I thought overhead projectors and whiteboards were super fun. Like that was the crux of why I wanted to be a teacher. I thought using those two tools was fun. And I am a teacher, not like a teacher in a classroom, but I teach lots of things, lots of things. I thought overhead projectors was an amazingly complicated technology for a lot of people.

Colleen [3:25]
And I always had feelings of how we might actually help somebody use them better or more effectively or—like it's sort of interesting that for a lot of people, they may never have even encountered an overhead projector, or what it was like when people were trying to show something on a screen before we all had all these million screens. Yeah, but overhead projectors, it was both cool and very uncomfortable. If somebody—they're forever putting things backwards on them, or just, you know, interesting thing. But you, little Ellen, in the classroom was like, now that that's an interesting tool.

Ellen Yoakum [4:04]
Yeah, I just thought they were neat. I don't know what about them was so interesting to me. I have no idea. I just did.

Colleen [4:12]
So let's talk about that for perspective, because that's also another common piece of the human experience, that we do find things that are just neat and we just like them, and we cannot articulate why. So I just think it's—I just think it's neat. What's something else that you just really like, and you're not really entirely sure what it is about that thing, but you just like it?

Ellen Yoakum [4:40]
That's a good question. I don't know, because part of the other, at least Ellen experience—I don't know, human, some humans, not all humans—is a lot of time pondering my own experience these days as like an empathy building exercise. Like, what is my experience and how could others differ in this experience? Like what is so uniquely—it's not even uniquely me. It's just I haven't encountered somebody else that thinks this way or talks this way or feels this way or perceives things this way. So I think I could probably give you a reason why for most of the things that I find really neat these days.

Colleen [5:21]
It's also sort of a kind of a trick question, because it's just sort of the water we swim in, that it's just normal and natural, that of course we would like this thing. Of course we would, because we do. Period. End of story. And that something that someone who knows us well might observe and be like, oh, it's so interesting how—yeah, you would like... I particularly like little things that are versions of big things. Like on my desk, I have a little school bus. I like it because it's just like this little visualization of a group of people traveling together in the same way to learn. So like, for me and my community, it feels like we don't need everybody, but those of us who want to join together and go somewhere together, this adorable little school bus. And it's not even always so much the meaning that I put behind it, but I just think it's so darn cute when it's little. So like, a little tiny anything. I have a Kong key chain because—

Ellen Yoakum [6:32]
I do too! Oh my gosh, a Kong key chain.

Colleen [6:32]
How cute! Like what I will do when that one breaks, it'll be very sad, because I've had it for years, and it's so cute.

Ellen Yoakum [6:45]
I had to take it off because my dogs thought it might be a real Kong and so they kept trying to take my keys. But I have it, it's actually sitting right over there, because I also think it's just adorable.

Ellen Yoakum [6:58]
I mean, I think for me, it's always the functionality. So like, I think the little school bus is cute, but I think it's that much cuter because of the meaning that it has. Like, I didn't find out until I was an adult that I could just do stuff, like I could just buy stuff for myself. I think a lot of people get here as an adult, but like, I never encountered the like—you know, when you're a kid and you ask for something and your parent's like, well, you don't need it, so you're not getting it. I think a lot of people have that.

Colleen [7:33]
Yeah.

Ellen Yoakum [7:35]
I had a lot of that. And then I got to be an adult and realized, like, I can make money and I can just spend it on things I don't need. Like, I can just get things that I like—a functional thing that I like and that doesn't need to be anything else.

Colleen [7:54]
Yeah. So like the Kong keychain is cute and it's functional. You actually need a keychain. But it's a keychain you like. It's—and, like, there's this extra layer of pleasure that comes from the fact that you need this thing anyway, and you have the one that you actually enjoy having. And I think that that's a really valuable thing, because a lot of us have a belief about things being utilitarian because they should be, because we don't value ourselves enough to get something. We know we could, and we've got money in theory, but it feels better to have, you know, the kind of thing that's so basic that it could fall off the end of an assembly line. We wouldn't even notice. And when we actually just get something that serves that same function that also makes us smile, that somehow is just better.

Ellen Yoakum [8:48]
Yeah, it just is. It is a big part of quality of life, and that's a big topic these days. That's a big, big topic. And I feel like we're circling it already. But understanding quality of life and all of the aspects that go into that, it's really an interesting one, because we're trying to apply it across, like when we talk about it for animals, we're trying to apply it across all animals. And there's a lot of nuance, and the same is true for humans. And like that nuance is just, it's so important. I don't think everybody, I don't think humans need like a fun keychain to make them smile. That's not a quality of life thing for everybody. But like, what is it for everybody? What are those things? And I think being able to recognize them for yourself is really important because then you can advocate for them.

Colleen [9:43]
Yeah. So, so, so true. So let's, let's go back to this thing that I think is really cool. We've started and we've been going, but I haven't asked you the traditional question. So I'm backtracking to that. So you said you wanted to be a teacher because you thought the overhead projectors and whiteboards were cool. And then I immediately launched into what's the thing you find cool but you don't know why. And you were just saying everything has a reason, which is also cool. Let's go back to, I want to know how you got from "I want to be a teacher" to becoming a behavior consultant at Pet Harmony.

Ellen Yoakum [10:19]
Yeah. So I think the way that I phrase it is that behavior consulting or animal behavior consulting is life coaching for dogs. And I am a teacher, and so I'm a teacher first. And I was like, what do I want to teach? And I thought I wanted to teach humans. And then I had a lot of experiences with humans that made me go, yeah, actually, maybe I like the other species. And I worked with a lot of different animals. I've worked with different species. I've done some cool stuff, but really what I value the most—and I'm sure all people that have been a part of educating animals or stewarding environments value this—is being able to build trust and teach them skills that let them move through the world more easily. That's what I always wanted. And that's what I'm doing.

Colleen [11:22]
Mm-hmm. So it's about teaching skills so they can move through the world more easily. What's an example of how that plays out in the work that you do?

Ellen Yoakum [11:33]
So I work a lot with separation anxiety, and so we're teaching dogs to be comfortable home alone. And the world that we navigate for most pet dogs requires them to be home alone. The modern world is it's not great for dogs. And I don't—I wish it was different. I don't think it's going to change anytime soon. And so the skill of being home alone and being comfortable home alone is a really big skill that is going to serve them for their whole lives. If we can set them up for success early, and if not early, if we can support them when they are struggling with that skill—because it's a learned skill—then it is a huge quality of life improvement, not just for the dog, but also for the people that they live with.

Colleen [12:26]
That that is, you know, I value so much that when you talk about those kinds of things, you just have so many containers and buckets and labels for what things are, and you're able to pull and sort the world in a way that—I find it incredibly valuable, and I wish I was better at it. But when I listen to you talk about it, I can learn from it. And, and I mean this in the most positive way possible—you could have a spectrum and it would be like quality of life. And like on one end, I think you could put me as like, I'm really good at the, just the subtleties and vagueness. And on the other end, I could stick you as, like, I can really sort this out and tell you what's what and make it super clear. And, like, it's not that either one is right. I mean, if you gave me a magic wand, I'd make myself more like you. But I do value your ability to be able to take all this information and create something concrete that is accessible and tangible out of it, because I think that's just—it's so cool. Not everybody does that, even among pet professionals who are well-educated and experienced and very smart, not everybody does that. And you do it so skillfully.

Ellen Yoakum [13:53]
Thank you. I think if I could just, my guess would be that, like, we all do that, but you have to understand the thing first in order to be able to organize it in a way that other people can understand. So I think the fact that you find value in that, I find a lot of value in seeing how things connect. And the way that I do that is by organizing it. So it is just it's the organizing principle. And as you said, everybody's doing that. You and I are just doing it slightly differently. And so there's value in being able to do both, because I can over-organize. And that's not helpful.

Colleen [14:36]
Right, right. That's true. For those of you who are listening who would like a nerdy sort of a metaphor, I think what you just said is very similar to what I hear in conversations about generative AI, because people are really excited that it can take huge, large language models, and then it can learn and start to categorize that data. I think humans do that. Constantly, our brains are working that way, but we are not always aware of it in the same way that a generative AI does it. And generative AIs can't intuit meaning at a deep, visceral, somatic level the way a human can, although it may well pull from its understanding of how people use words to make guesses that seem like they can, maybe not. So there is, you know, but there's a lot of like, Well, can AI, can it know about feelings? Maybe, or maybe not. Argue about the words you want, but it can learn from how we use words and patterns and big data. And so I think your brain does that. I think maybe mine doesn't so much, because I don't find things in so, that it's as easy for me to put buckets and categories on them. But maybe that's a skill to work on, and maybe I will do that—but not today, and not today, not today. So let's—yeah, I want to—so you've said a few times quality of life is like a big thing. And I'm so curious about it. So let's explore that a little bit more deeply. You said it's a big topic for you. Tell me more.

Ellen Yoakum [16:18]
Yeah. So when I say it's a big topic, I think I could probably speak for at least my team at Pet Harmony—that's what we care about. I'm trying to figure out a way to say without like patting myself on the back, but like, I'm good at what I do, and so I can do a lot for people in a way that improves quality of life. But for me, what ultimately I'm seeking is that quality of life improvement and not the skill. I'm not seeking just like, I really just want your dog to be home alone. I want your dog to be home alone because I think it will improve everybody's quality of life. You know, I want you to be able to go to work in person if you want to. I want you to be able to go grocery shopping. I want you to be able to live your life. Because I think we have a lot of pet people that are not living the life that they want. And for me, that's like, that's the underlying thing that I'm doing.

Ellen Yoakum [17:22]
I have a friend—this is always like the metaphor I go back to—I have a friend who's a veterinarian, and he told me that he tells his students that the greatest skill you can learn as a vet is how to let animals die. And I realize that seems super morbid, but the context is, like, sometimes the best thing that you can do for quality of life is to decide that the quality of life isn't there, and you're going to let this animal go. And so it's like a big—even though quality of life, I think maybe we all have an innate understanding of what quality of life means. There is so much nuance to it that if I was to tell you, like, Colleen, what's your quality of life? And I was to tell you, like, I want you to tell me on a scale of one to 10, and I was to ask you every single day for 365 days, you would give me probably, you know, 260, 270 different numbers. Because it's going to change. It's going to ebb and flow. And so being able to see that on this continuum is also really important.

Colleen [18:36]
That makes so much sense to me. I get very frustrated with people who are like, how would you rate your day on a one to 10? And I was like, I don't know. Like I can have, I can have 15 different days in a single day. Like I do, my quality of life ebbs and flows constantly based on my experience. And and I think that when I rate like how I am, how today was, what are you asking me to do? Like, are you wanting me to average across all of those experiences? Are you wanting me to pick my highest peak? Are you wanting me to pick my greatest low? Like, what are you asking me? Because I don't feel like I know, and so I probably always just give you the number five, because whatever, mid-range average.

Ellen Yoakum [19:24]
Yeah.

Colleen [19:25]
And I find that really interesting—how, like, when we have these metrics, and we think they're meaningful, but I'm not entirely sure the data we get from people is meaningful, if if they're not clear on what the purpose of it is, and they're not trying to orient toward the thing you're asking them. I'm giving you an answer, but I'm not maybe giving you something that that is useful.

Ellen Yoakum [19:51]
Yeah, I think I read—I think this was in a book called Four Thousand Weeks—and one of the things they mentioned was like, if you keep a gratitude journal, yeah, what ends up happening is that you start actually experiencing a pretty low quality of life because you're so focused on noticing. And so I think, yeah, we could talk about all the reasons why gratitude journals are bad, but one of the reasons is that it's forcing you to extract quality of life from your day and look at it really objectively. And I don't know that that is particularly valuable all of the time. I think there is a time and place to try to get a sense of like, where are we at with quality of life, and is there something that I could do that would improve it or that I'm doing that is making it worse, that maybe I didn't realize? But I'm with you. Like when people, you know, fill out the forms before a session and they want to rate their dog's quality of life on a one to 10, I'm like, okay, I mean, this doesn't tell me a whole lot. But if I'm doing it every week, and you tell me it's a nine this week, and then the next week you tell me it's a five, then I know something shifted.

Colleen [21:09]
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me, that that having these sort of touch points over time, and a comparison between one touch point to another, is really valuable. But that doesn't—like, me knowing you've shifted doesn't necessarily tell me anything about what shifted or why, unless I go in and ask more about it. So it's sort of that I like the idea of using quality of life and a rating as a sort of a conversation starter. And then diving in to like, okay, where where are we at with this? Let's talk about what we're experiencing and figure out what's going on. And I think that's—yeah, that feels like a really valuable way to do that.

Ellen Yoakum [21:54]
Yeah, I agree. I think it is—I think it's also important to recognize this—I was, I was listening to something and the person was talking about when do you tell clients that you've done enough? And for trainers, that's a tough question. Because, like, if I have a client that's doing separation anxiety, when is it enough? Like, we can always do more. We can go up to, the dog can be by themselves for 12 hours if we wanted to. But like, I'm not trying to do that. That's not my goal. And I need to recognize, though, when my client has gotten to the point that they are comfortable, that their quality of life is better, and we can let go. And so they may feel like they want to keep working. But I'm like, I think if we keep working, you're actually now going to be putting more stress on your life because you don't need to be doing this work anymore. So I think that is another aspect of it is like that quality of life piece—I think you could continue to, you know, obsess over it in a way that isn't helpful.

Colleen [23:02]
And the context for this is really important because this goes back to systems that—you and I in the conversation—like it's so interesting how we didn't start by saying we're going to talk about quality of life and systems and all of this deep stuff. We start by saying we're going to talk about keychains, and then we went to how you became a teacher, and now we're in this deep, thick, meaty territory. But that's where we ended up. And so now we're talking about quality of life, and we're talking about what's good enough. And there is this real tension in American culture for sure, and probably in other places, but I don't know because I don't live them. But like in American culture, there's this push for more, better, bigger—all of the things. And and I think pet professionals are particularly vulnerable to that, because there is no standard. There is no rubric for what does a good quality of life look like. They are constantly aware that the reality is, there's more they could be doing. And it's not that they're, they should be, or they need to be doing it, necessarily—but they could be. And I think so many professionals have such a hard time not framing could as should. And so when we're talking about this in the context of systems, you know, many trainers are like, well, there's more I could do. And so if I back off from that, I am somehow failing this animal, failing these people. Because I could do more and I stopped. But that's not really what we're trying to get at. We're trying to get at this: what is enough? And do we know it when we get there? And and then having the self-trust to go, yep, we're here. All right, and can I let go? And does it feel like I'm letting go, or does it feel like I'm resting into this, being comfortable? That's a very—I find that a really complex set of emotions that people are navigating. And they're not easy.

Ellen Yoakum [25:17]
They're not. And I think we are—this is very much for me, a conversation about enoughness, which is a big—another big one. It's a big topic. I think as humans, a lot of us struggle with enoughness—like, am I doing enough? Am I enough? Are they getting enough? How do I know? And if you can't define what enough is, then we don't have an end point. And I just want to shout out all of the like neurodivergent folks that are like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, if there's no end point, it does not compute. We do not understand.

Ellen Yoakum [25:56]
I worked with a lot of separation anxiety cases, and I worked with a lot of neurodivergent clients as well. And I know for some of them, they're like, but what is it? I need to know, like, what is the end point? And I'm like, I don't know. We are designing our own adventure. So the only thing I can tell you is when I do not think that we should keep working. Like, I will absolutely give you my professional opinion because you're paying for that. But your end point is your end point. Like, your enough is your enough. I had somebody who had a goal of leaving the dog at home alone for an hour and a half every day, and we got up to eight hours, because the way the training works, you can go—you can just keep chipping away and chipping away and chipping away—and we got up to eight hours, and I was like, hey, we met your goal five months ago. You could stop whenever you want. And they were like, okay, I'm going to keep going. I'm like, that's fine. That's up to you.

Ellen Yoakum [26:53]
But I think if we don't recognize when we get to our enough, then we're going to also be burning ourselves out. And that goes back to quality of life, because the goal is quality of life, not the skill. So if that client had said to me, I want to get to eight hours because I want to be able to leave the dog at home and go do fun stuff, that would be one thing. But if the client says to me, I want to get to an hour and a half because I just want to not worry while I'm at the grocery store, we're not going for the same goal. And so I need to be able to recognize where their enough is and be comfortable with that, and they need to recognize it too. And it goes both ways. Like I've had clients where I've said, I think we can keep working, and they're like, nope, this is my enough. Okay, all right, great. Sounds good. Love it for you.

Colleen [27:46]
You're saying a couple things really—like this is, what you're saying is so valuable to the people I work with, because you're recognizing some of the ways that those internal shifts, those ways we understand things, the perceptions we have about ourselves, our work, and others, what the work we're trying to do with them—all of those things have so much depth to them that when you can start to understand what's enough and when you can start to define what quality of life is, like the work you're trying to help people get toward, it changes the nature of—you can have a relationship where you have an ending point rather than feeling like you're on a treadmill. And I think that's that, yeah, yeah. It's that again. It goes back to, we could talk about systems now. But before we go—I really do want to go there, because I do think there's so much more to say about that. But before we go there, I want to back up for a second because you used a term that I want to make sure I understand.

Colleen [28:55]
You talked about neurodivergent folks. And I'm assuming that that includes, I mean, I don't want to assume. I want you to define it. What does neurodivergent mean to you?

Ellen Yoakum [29:06]
Oh, so neurodivergent is like, I guess the better way to do it would be to define neurotypical first. So a neurotypical brain is a brain that most people have. So like, there's a mode. If we did a bell curve, it's like, most people's brains are doing this thing, whatever that thing is. And then there's some folks that have brains that are doing other things. So like, ADHD, autism—there's lots of different things that people that are neurodivergent have. And their brains, I mean, all brains work differently. Not everybody, even neurotypicals, have the same brain. But there are some things that are pretty consistent. And then once you are no longer neurotypical and you fall under neurodivergent, you have brains that have some pretty significant variations. And a lot of those come with some like challenges living in our society that was built for the normals. And so I think we're all trying to figure it out and support each other. But yeah, so neurodivergent would be different. I'm neurodivergent. I have ADHD.

Colleen [30:16]
Okay, thank you. Thank you for, for making that clear, because I think that that's, that's a helpful distinction. I want to go back to you—you were saying you could work, like when you're working on separation anxiety, you could continue to work for as long as somebody's willing to keep going, basically. But you're helping them define what enough is, and sometimes that means going past it, and sometimes that means being really aware of when to stop. And I'm curious, how would you talk to somebody who was like, I don't, I don't know what enough is. I don't know. What would you say to them that might help them think about how to figure out what enough is?

Ellen Yoakum [30:52]
That's a tricky one that is very individual, but I'm going to assume as a baseline, most individuals are eating kind of like three intervals a day, and that takes maybe 45 minutes a meal, if you were to also account for like time to go to the grocery store. And everything that goes into feeding a human—again, ebbs and flows. If you got little ones, it's very different. I know that humans, the recommendation from medical stuff, is this amount of movement a week. And when we start to tally that up, I know that my clients, on top of work and travel and commute and other things, I'm not asking people to do much a day. I'm asking for sometimes, like, change the way you feed your dog. Let's just start there. Let's not add anything, because I see what you do in a day, and you don't have—you don't have time. And you're not—you could do it for a short period, and we're here for the marathon, not the sprint.

Colleen [31:54]
That's genius. So you're kind of a quality of life expert. If I could give you a magic wand and you could, you know, rant a blessing or bestow something upon pet professionals everywhere, what would it be?

Ellen Yoakum [32:10]
I like an understanding of systems is always going to be my go-to, because systems let us take a load off. I told somebody—for my mentees this year, my goal is to help people close cognitive tabs. So I know that we have so many tabs open in our brain trying to juggle so many things. So if I can help them close some of those so that they can spend their big, beautiful human brain on things that are for the big, beautiful human brain and not, you know, remembering to take out the trash or whatever, then we're going to do that. But the way that we close those tabs more easily and still do all of the things that we need or want to do is to create systems. And then it's also important to recognize when we're working in a system that is not—it's not about us. Like as a professional, it can feel really hard when things aren't going either the way we want, or we know that it could be different. And also it's not about us. And our client may be navigating systems that are making what you want very unreasonable. So if it's like financial because they just had to go to the hospital and they have medical bills, that's not about you. It's not about your skills. It's not about anything. It's about the stress and the fact that your client is dealing with a system that is broken, or isn't broken, but is very violent. And that can help us have a lot of grace for ourselves when it feels like I could and should be able to do more but I can't.

Colleen [33:49]
Yeah, "that can help us have a lot of grace for ourselves when it feels like I could and should be doing more but I can't." Grace is a word that comes up in coaching conversations all the time, and I notice that it does not come up in my day-to-day conversations very often. And I think it's so interesting. There is that experience of needing systems that support us that we have the autonomy to create, and also recognizing that we do live within systems that we can't—we can influence in our own ways ultimately, but we individually are expected to just live within the system. And grace is kind of the peace people are reaching for—that understanding of that they're doing what they can to set themselves up for the kind of life they want to have, and that it's not a failing when they don't always get what they're reaching for. But also this, I don't know, there's connotations here in grace that I haven't quite teased out, but there's a—

Ellen Yoakum [35:16]
Self-compassion.

Colleen [35:18]
An acknowledgement of themselves. And I think it's so beautiful. And I love that it popped out when you were describing what having knowledge of systems would do for a person. So thank you for that.

Ellen Yoakum [35:32]
Thanks. And we'll take it.

Ellen Yoakum [35:35]
I've been there where you're like, you're having a lot of feelings. And if you haven't—you're having a hard time. If you haven't gone through—everybody has different learning history. Some people need to really focus on this, like in therapy. If you are somebody who's really in tune with your feelings and processing them, congratulations. That's nice for you. But I think sometimes it's just, I'm having a hard time, and the most tangible thing is the human in front of me. But when we take a step back and say, the human's not to blame here. Like we're working—they're living the best that they can, just like I'm living the best that I can. And also, I'm in a system that benefits from me and my client from not being able to define what enough is, and not being able to feel like enough. And so I don't feel like enough when I feel like I could have done more for my client. And there are plenty of scenarios where I did everything I possibly could have for that client, and I'm just annoyed that it wasn't what I wanted. And I need to have a little bit of a temper tantrum, and then I will be over it, and it will be fine. But it's not about us most of the time.

Colleen [36:58]
Yeah, yeah. It can be hard to remember, because it feels so deeply impactful and personal, but in most cases, it really isn't.

Ellen Yoakum [37:09]
Yeah. And sometimes the answer is, I actually did the thing. Like I have plenty of clients where I did the thing, we got to the—we got to the end point. And back to it wasn't quite enough for what we were looking for. So like, I've had plenty of single individuals that got up to their original goal, because I primarily work, or I largely work with separation anxiety, got up to their goal and then their life changed, and they have to be out of the house eight hours. Previously, two and a half was all that they needed to have a huge quality of life improvement, and now the goal post moved. And like, that's hard. And also you can't quit your job because your dog has a hard time home alone most of the time. Sometimes there's—sometimes that's an option. And I don't ask clients—that's too much.

Colleen [38:03]
That's too much. That's too much. Well, this has been a fascinating conversation, kind of deeply philosophical, which is cool. I love that. If people wanted to learn more about you and your work, how could they do that?

Ellen Yoakum [38:17]
They can find me at PetHarmonyTraining.com. I'm also—Pet Harmony is on so many platforms.

Colleen [38:27]
I'll link them all, so you don't—link all of you. If you—okay, if you'll send me the link or that the platforms—have a link everything. And—

Ellen Yoakum [38:36]
They can find us on TikTok, Instagram and Facebook. We also have a podcast, Enrichment for the Real World, where we talk about creating enrichment, enriching environments for pets, their people and the professionals who support them.

Colleen [38:50]
I'd like to add a plug for that podcast. I said earlier that I so admire the buckets that you can sort things out and label things and make things clear. The Pet Harmony podcast does a really nice job of making things really clear and accessible so that people can have takeaways from it. So I've found it very valuable. So for those of you who find my podcast frustrating because there's no structure, you might totally love the Pet Harmony one. But if you just care about passion and topics, you'll like both of them, because there's definitely passion there. But it's—you know, to tie back to wanting to be a teacher—it feels like it's designed by teachers. It has a real teaching element to it that I very much value. So thank you to the whole Pet Harmony team, including you, as particularly on this podcast element, that it is a very lovely educational resource for people.

Ellen Yoakum [39:56]
I will send that to my team. That will make them smile today.

Colleen [39:59]
Well, good, good. Yeah, it's been so lovely talking with you today.

Ellen Yoakum [40:04]
It's great talking with you. Thank you for having me.

Colleen [40:06]
I appreciate you being here. That's our conversation for today. If something we talked about resonated, I invite you to sit with it. Notice what feels true and what you want to explore further. You don't have to have it all figured out to start moving toward what matters. Whatever showed up for you today—clarity, questions, even resistance—trust that it's pointing you toward something important. For more support, join my weekly notes at ColleenPelar.com. And until next time, remember you are enough, always, just as you are.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai